tv Happening Now FOX News June 28, 2011 11:00am-1:00pm EDT
helicopter happening now" which gets going now. jenna: hi everybody, i'm jenna lee. >> john: i'm john roberts in for jon scott. "happening now", casey anthony on the stand. jen jeand casey facing the death penalty for the murder of her daughter caylee. we do not want to miss this testimony. let's listen in: >> so we're clear, you never told crystal holloway while the two of you were being romantic that this was an accident that snowballed out of control? >> asked and answered. >> asked and answered, sustained. >> the answer is no. >> objection. asked and answered. >> your honor, i think the witness' answer was nonresponsive and i want it to be clear on the answer. >> so the record will be clear, is the answer yes or no mr. anthony?
>> will you ask that one more time, please? >> you never told her this was an accident that snowballed out of control? >> never did. >> did you ever send her a text message telling her that you needed her in her life? >> well, i've seen that information come out. yes, i sent many text messages to many, many volunteers and people, and yes, i did need those people in my life, yes. >> so you sent her that text message? >> yes, sir, i'm not going to say that i didn't. >> did you ever leave her any other letters that you were trying to get to speak with her? >> i know on one occasion i stopped by her residence, just left her a letter. yes, that's possible.
what was in the contents of it, i don't remember. but it was something to cheer her up, make her to feel comfortable, what she was going through in her life, possibly, i did. i don't see anything wrong with that. >> if i can have just one moment, judge. >> you may . did you at any time ever tell her not to say anything about your affair with her? >> objection. assumes facts not in evidence. >> did you make the statement or not?
>> i couldn't hear the witness. >> i'm just simply asking if he made the statement or not >> overruled. you can ask the question. >> sir, i never had a romantic affair with crystal holloway, river cruise, or whatever name she wanted to give you or the world. if i'm not mistaken, sir, she has a questionable past, okay, and if i can clarify that with you, she also had been arrested for -- >> judge, i'm going to move -- >> breaking and entering, stuff like that. she is not a very good person, sir. >> the question simply calls for a yes or no answer, sir. >> ask that question to me again, sir. >> did you ever tell her not to say anything about your affair with her. >> i'm going to say this again. i did not have an affair with her, so the answer is no.
>> and sir, are you aware that she never did say anything about your affair until the police came to her? >> objection. assumes facts not in evidence. >> sustained. >> how many times would you say you spoke to miss holloway on the phone throughout the time period of october-january, october october 2008 through january january 2009? >> well, again, i said at the beginning i did not know her as crystal holloway. i never her as river cruise. as far as how many times, sir, i don't know. could have been once, twice, it could have been ten times. i don't know. >> did you ever speak to her late at night? >> not that i can remember, no. i don't believe i would. >> can i have one moment, please? >> you may .
>> mr. baez didn't ask this question, but when was it you knew this lady? >> i met her at our command center at the skating rink on golden rod, sometime in the middle to probably the third week of october. >> so you met her sometime in mid october. >> mid october 2008. >> and when -- after caylee's remains were found, your friendship with her ended? >> at some point -- >> physically, yes, i would -- basically, yes, i would agree. >> did you ever tell river cruise that while your
daughter was home on bond, that you grabbed her by the throat, threw her up against the wall, and said -- >> [interruption [. >> goes into statements by the witness. >> overruled. >> threw her against the wall and said i know you did something to caylee, where's caylee? >> no, sir, i never did do that to my daughter. >> no further question. >> redirect? >> no further questions. >> you may stand down. >> thank you sir . >> defense will call the next witness. >> defense calls cindy anthony. martha: we just heard that cindy anthony is being called to the stand now,
this after george anthony, the father of casey, just testified yet again and was called to the stand by the defense. now, remember, both parents were called by the prosecution first, jon, through the first go around, but now there's a second line of questioning as well. >> and the person we're waiting to hear from today is roy cronk, the meter reader who found the body of caylee anthony and defense is trying to say he was the one who placed the body where it was found and not casey anthony. martha: we'll talk about the strategy developing here. phil keating is standing by with a host of other experts as well. we understand that lee anthony, the brother of casey, is also in the courtroom, along with roy cronk. the question is, when are these guys going to be called and what's next? let's listen in to cindy anthony. >> -- jim hoover to go search off of suburban drive. >> no, sir, i did not. >> did you ever ask them to go videotape that area? >> no, sir, i did not.
>> on december 20th of 2008, there was a search warrant served on your home, do you recall that? >> yes. >> did you del the detective that you had your people walk that area a month ago and no one -- nobody was there? >> i can't recall if i stated anything to mr. mellich that day. we were kind of upset they were back during that time frame. >> do you know if you told him that -- >> if i could have just a moment. >> do you know if you told him that you had people walk that area? let me finish the question. where the body was discovered, a month ago, and nothing was there in that area? >> again, sir, i don't recall specifics. i spoke to mr. mellich about
it, i just remember being upset he was on my home on the 20th of december. >> did you also -- do you recall if you told him that you have some blankets missing? >> i did recall telling him that there was a blanket missing. >> and this was the second time they had searched your home since finding your granddaughter? >> on the 20th, it was the third time. oh, that they found caylee? the second time, i'm sorry. >> and the first time that they searched your home, they left a search warrant at your home? >> on december 11th? >> yes. >> no, sir, they did not. >> did they leave an in the other sheet telling what you they confiscated? >> no, sir, they did not. >> so you have no idea what they were looking for, or what they had taken?
>> not on december 11th, no. by the 20th is when i'm asking you, when they came with the second search warrant, did you know what they had confiscated on the 11th, what they were looking for? >> i believe our attorney at that time did request the search warrant and the items listed at some point before then, we did get that. >> so you were aware they were looking for winnie the poo blankets and bedding? >> well, there were 70 some items that they had taken on december 11th, so i really wasn't sure what they were looking for. i don't think i read the subpoena for december 11th. i think that -- from my recollection, it had something to do with the sticker. >> prior to september 2008, did you tell your son, lee anthony, that you had sent dominic casey and or jim
hoover to suburban drive to look for caylee with a videocamera? >> i had never -- i never told anybody that i sent those guys there, because i never sent those guys there. >> what about after -- i know you just answered, but i want to make sure about the time period. what about after or around the time of november 2008, did you tell lee or have an argument with lee about sending dominic to go and search in that area? >> i had no knowledge of that search in that area, so i would not have had an argument regarding that. my first knowledge of that search was after caylee's remains were found. >> okay. and you never had a discussion with him where he confronted you that why are you looking for caylee?
>> sustained. >> i have no further questions. >> cross-examination? >> no cross-examination. >> witness may stand down. thank you. martha: well, there's cindy anthony answering some questions about whether or not she sent a search team -- okay, so just wanted to pause there. lee anthony, to remind you again is the brother of casey anthony. there seems to be a line of questioning of the parents, about their relationship with the search and rescue team, with the volunteer, who they sent where, who they talked to. lee anthony, again, just a reminder, was very active -- phil keating told us this a few days ago, very active in the search and rescue, very out in front. so we'll see what the defense says now.
>> lee anthony. >> good morning, mr. anthony. >> good morning. >> mr. anthony, did you ever have an argument or discussion with your mother about sending dominic casey to look for caylee off suburban drive with a videocamera? >> yes, sir, i did. >> and can you tell us what happened? >> absolutely. i was over at my mother's house, and we had sustained, rephrase the question. >> did you go to your parent's home? >> yes, sir, i did. >> and when you got there, did your mother tell you anything about sending dominic with a videocamera to suburban drive? >> overruled. >> yes, sir. that did happen. >> what did she tell you?
>> that she sent dominic into the woods off of suburban because she got a psychic tip that she wanted to follow up on. >> and when did this conversation take place? approximately. >> time or date, orioo. >> the month of 2008. >> it was later in the year. i don't really exactly. i'm sorry. >> would it have been before you went back to work? >> i believe it was. >> and when did you go back to work? >> i went back to work. i started back sometime in october. >> of 2008? >> yes, sir. >> prior to october 2008, you had this discussion with your mother? >> that's my recollection, yes, sir. >> and did it create an argument between the two of you? >> might have been one sided on my part, absolutely. i was quite angry. >> why were you angry?
>> first time i had ever heard anyone in my family offer it up, that they were willing to look for a deceased caylee, because prior to that, not even within the realm of anybody's mindset. so i was quite angry. >> thank you sir. that's all my questions. >> cross? >> good morning, sir. >> good morning. >> you had this conversation -- you had this alleged conversation with your mother in october? or before october of 2008? >> well, i don't know the exact time frame for sure. i went back to work approximately in october. i know the conversation happened prior to that, because it fueled my decision to go back to work. >> you're aware -- or are
you aware that mr. casey went into the woods in november? gloo that's my understanding, yes, sir. >> so you had this alleged conversation with your mother before you then actually took place. >> it that's the only time she did that, yes, sir. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> no further questions. >> may the witness stand down. >> actually, if i can have a moment. >> mr. anthony, what do you mean it fueled your decision to go back to work? >> it made my decision a lot easier to return to work instead of being out of work during that period of time. >> why?
>> >> objection. >> overruled. >> it was brought up during cross. >> when he went back? >> overruled. >> i was very angry that my mom specifically, but my folks decided to do that without keeping me in the loop, and it was something that we -- for me, i couldn't believe that they were even considering that caylee would no longer be with us and they would be willing to look for her that way, and i decided shortly thereafter that i am indeed going to go back to work and try to focus my energy across the board. >> thank you. no further questions. >> recross.
>> in october of 2008, you were completely sold on the lies your sister had told you? >> objection. >> overruled. >> yes and no. >> i have nothing else, sir. >> may the witness stand down. you may stand down, sir. >> john: testimony from lee anthony, brother of cease. you got to wonder, jenna, are they paving the way for roy cronk to appear, talking about dom quick casey, the investigator brought in to investigate the area for caylee annny, searching the area, not finding anything and later roy cronk found the body. the defense is making the case that he stand to benefit from reward money and actually had the body in
his possession and eventually put it where it was found. jenna: as we understand it, roy cronk is in the courtroom and we're waiting to hear what the defense might call next. fi keating has been standing by and phil, we discussed this family relationship time and time again. lee anthony continues to be almost sympathetic here, you can see how much he wanted to be involved in the family and part of the loop, yet was left out time and time again. >> and the relevance here that jose baez and defense team is trying to bring in as evidence is going back to the videotape we showed during a fox report last night, videotape taken by dominic casey who you heard made mention there and his partner, they were private investigators, hired by the anthonys to go out and try to find caylee, because they were not having full 100 percent cooperation from the orange county sheriff's department, so as you can see, the detective no su being sworn in to again take the witness stand. those investigators in that
videotape they took in the woods showed them searching in the general area of those woods where the skeletal remains were found one month later, the point being when those guys were in the woods they didn't see those remains. more on that, she could provide curious testimony but the defense is trying to get the jury to believe perhaps those remains were placed in those woods long after casey was locked up in jail. >> let's listen in. >> when executing that search warrant that mrs. cindy anthony had stated to you that she had her people walk that area, meaning where the body was recovered, a month a. and nothing was in that area,. >> i recall her saying something to that extent. >> if i showed to you a copy of your police report, would that refresh your recollection? >> i have a copy here, too. >> so you recall that? can you look it over and make sure that's youro it
would be on page nine, number 32. >> i have a different report, a compilation of my reports, so bear with me, please. >> i recall she made that comment in front of corporal edwards. i don't have an independent recollection of the comment but obviously i wrote it down, so -- >> and that there was nothing in the area then? >> i can only attest to what i wrote in the report, in that she stated she had people walk that area, meaning the area the body was discovered. a month ago. and there was nothing in the area then. >> i have no further questions. >> cross-examination?
>> none. >> may the detective stand down, subject to recall. >> yes, sir. subject to recall. >> thank you detective. >> thank you sir. >> jenna: quick and easy that time. not the first time, though, when the defense called the lead detective to the stand. i want to listen in here. >> the defense may call the next witness. >> roy cronk. jen diswhren is the man we've been waiting for. roy cronk, just to remind everybody, is the one that discovered the body. john: the remains of caylee annny and -- anthony and the defense is making the contention that roy cronk was a meter reader, went to the location with caylee anthony. it's a strong allegation the defense is making. what we've seen over the last little while has been laying the foundation that the detective who we just heard from, as well as his
partner, dominic casey, had gone to the general area where the body was found and videotaped that area and found nothing there at the time, then rater roy cronk comes along and finds the body of young caylee anthony. jenna: there are so many different variables, the months between supposedly little caylee died, which was june, and when the body was discovered, i believe, in december. we have heard from a variety of witnesses that have been part of the search team saying just how difficult the marsh was to look through and so that becomes the question, was the body easy to miss, were the remains easy to miss, or was the body never there to begin with. john: it will be interesting to listen to what cronk has to say because the defense has painted him to be a bad guy. let's listen to what he has to say in response to the question here. >> roy cronk. >> you may be seated. morning, mr. cronk. >> good morning, sir. >> would you tell us,
please, sir, how you were employed during the summer months of 2008? >> aifs meter read for orange county, sir. >> and how long had you been employed as a meter reader? >> since may 27th of '08, sir. >> what type of meters did you read? >> water read -- water meter, sir. >> did you have an assigned route at that time? >> we were assign dollars a route the night before, sir. >> the night before? >> yes, sir. >> every night before? >> we never knew what route we had the next day. that always varied. >> and did you have a general area, a district of orange county that you worked in? >> we worked all of orange county, glier in august of 2008, sir, did you have occasion to be assigned to read meters out by hope
springs drive? >> yes, sir. >> and are you familiar, sir, in fact, with the residence of george and cindy anthony on hope spring drive? >> no, sir. >> did you read all the meters on hope springs drive? >> yes, sir. >> did you also read meters on suburban drive? >> yes, sir. >> and the meter at the school? >> and do you remember on the day of august 11th, who, if anyone, may have been with you when you were reading meters in that area? >> at the time, nobody, sir. >> you went out there by yourself on august 1 #th, two -- 11th, 2008? >> i started the route, sir, by myself. >> did somebody join you out there on that date? >> late in the afternoon, two of my coworkers joined me, sir. >> and who would they be?
>> i believe it was david dean and chris -- i don't remember his last name. >> do you remember specifically that date, august 11th, 2008? >> yes, sir. >> what particularly about that date do you remember, sir? >> finding a dead rattlesnake, sir. >> i'm asking you what you particularly remember about that date. nothing really, sir. >> mr. kronk, on august 11th, of 2008, did you stop your county vehicle on suburban drive? >> yes, sir. >> did you exit at that time and go into the wooded area in order to relieve yourself? >> yes, sir.
>> is that something you custom early did? >> -- customarily did? >> we didn't have bathrooms so you do what you had to do, sir. >> do you know where the nearest gas station facility is to suburban drive? i believe a shopping center at the end of the road, sir. >> prior to that particular day, were you aware of the saga unfolding in the search for little caylee march lee ann knee? >> yes, sir. >> were you watching news reports on the subject matter frequently? >> no, sir. >> did you have a roomate? >> yes, sir. >> did your roomate watch television and news reports about this search? >> yes, sir. >> did you discuss that
situation with your roomate on a daily basis? >> no, sir. >> how often? not very often, sir. >> when you went to suburban drive on august # one, sir, were you aware at the time where the anthony residence was in relation to where you stopped to relieve yourself? >> it was the first time i read the route, so not really, sir, no. >> and on that particular day, sir, did you have anything unusual occur to you while you were releaving yourself? >> no, sir. did you go into the woods? >> long enough to do what i had to do and come straight out. >> did you see or do anything else in the woods there besides just relieve
yourself and walk straight out? >> i looked around, sir. what, if anything, did you find when you looked around, sir? i saw something that appeared a little odd to me. >> did you on that date and time and place, sir, see a bag that appeared suspicious to you? >> you didn't really see a bag, per se, sir, no. >> did you lift a bag, sir? >> no, sir. on that particular date and time, sir, did you see a skull, a human skull? a small human skull?
>> i was never closer than 20-30 feet from the object, and i did see something that appeared to me to look like something of that nature, me to look like something of that nature, yes, sir. >> and, sir, did you make any exclamation about what you saw and found? did you say anything else to anybody? >> no, sir. we found a dead rattlesnake, and that pretty much took up the rest of the afternoon. >> did you, when you went into relieve yourself, sir, were you aware that mr. dean was there? >> yes, sir, i believe so. >> and is it your testimony, sir, that when you went into the woods, that then and there you did not specifically see a skull? >> no, sir. >> then is it also your testimony that you did not then and there say something to mr. dean that you had seen a skull? >> not at that time, no, sir. >> and did he, that is mr. dean, come to where you were, walk
from the truck to where you were? >> no, sir. >> did mr. dean step on the apparently deceased rattlesnake? >> no, sir. >> did mr. dean have any occasion somehow to get the shovel from his truck and pick up the rattlesnake? >> yes, sir. >> and that was there and then at that time on august 11, 2008? >> yes, sir. >> and did you have conversation with him during that process that you had just seen a skull? >> i told him that i saw something that looked odd to me, but they were completely enthralled with the dead rattlesnake, sir. >> did you tell him, sir, that you saw a skull? >> i told him i saw an object that looked like a skull.
i never told him i saw one. >> okay. what did you and mr. dean do next, sir? >> went back to the office and showed everybody the dead rattlesnake. >> did everybody come out and take pictures of the dead rattlesnake? >> i believe so. >> did you then just go home? >> yes, sir. >> did you call the sheriff's department or any other law enforcement agency to report that you had seen what might be a skull? >> yes, sir. >> did you speak to somebody? >> i originally called orange county, and they told me that they were not handling those phone calls and i needed to call -- crime line, sir. >> did you call crime line? >> yes, sir.
>> did anybody respond to you after you made the call about maybe finding a skull? >> no, sir. >> so you, did you tell them that you had maybe found this skull on suburban drive? >> no, sir. i told them i saw an object that looked like that, sir. >> and did you mention to anybody that it was in the vicinity of the anthony residence? >> no, sir. >> so it's your testimony that despite the fact you called and you may have found a skull, there was no response except call crime line? >> yes, sir. >> did anybody from any law enforcement agency come and talk to you on that day? >> no, sir. >> did you work the next day, august the 12th of 2008? >> yes, sir. >> were you reading meters? >> yes, sir. >> where was your route on that day?
>> i don't remember, sir. >> on the 12th of august of 2008, did you have occasion, sir, to call anybody from law enforcement again about the baby skull? >> no, sir. >> what did you do on that day? >> >> i read my route, i went home. >> so you worked as usual, you may have seen a skull, you pick up a dead rattlesnake, you call law enforcement, the next day it's just back to work as usual. >> yes, sir. >> and on the 13th of august, 2008, sir, did you call the sheriff's department again? >> yes, sir. >> did you report, in fact, that you had seen a skull there on suburban drive? >> i was told to call, and an officer would meet me out there. >> sir? >> i was told to call, and can
an officer would meet me out there, sir. >> and on august the 13th of 2008 did an officer from the orange county sheriff's department, in fact, meet you on suburban drive? >> two of them came out, yes, sir. >> do you remember who they were? >> i believe it was officer cape, and i don't believe i remember the woman's name that was out as well. >> and did you take those officers in to the woods to show them where you had seen this maybe skull? >> i never said it was a baby -- >> maybe. excuse me, that's my fault. >> sorry. no, i never took them into the woods, sir. >> they didn't ask you, mr. mr. kronk, show us where this skull is that the world is looking for? >> no, sir. >> and what did you do then? >> i pointed -- we never went into the woods. we were standing out in front, and i just pointed in the area
where i believed i had seen it, sir. >> all right. now let's go back over this and see if we can help you. on august 11, 2008, sir, you did, indeed, call 911, did you? >> no, i don't -- no, i never called 911, sir. >> would it help refresh your recollection, sir, if i was to show you a transcript of the call of august 11, 2008, to 911 by you? >> i live in osceola county, sir. i called orange county, so i did not call 911. i called the dispatch in orange county. >> your honor, may i approach the witness? >> you may. >> counsel, stamp 314 for august
11, 2008. [background sounds] >> counsel is helping me on this. did you call the nonemergency line? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and did you tell that nonemergency line that you were a meter reader with orange county? >> yes, sir. >> did you tell them that you had a route today that included the anthony's home? >> yes, sir. >> so then you did know that the route included the anthony's home. >> when i took the route in the morning, sir, i did not know that i had the anthony's route. >> and, sir, did you tell the operator that you were down
there by the school and then came back, and on the left-hand side coming back i noticed something that looks white, and there was, like, a gray bag down in there? do you remember telling them that? >> yes, sir. >> you remember telling them your words, "i don't know what it is. i'm not telling you, you know, it's caylee or anything of that nature." do you remember that discussion? >> yes, sir. uh-huh. >> and did you describe the area that you were talking about? the area off suburban drive? is. >> yes, sir. i told them the general area where it was, sir. >> did you tell them that there were two little in areas that you can go in, and there's a big, long tree laying down? >> yes, sir. >> and there's a lot of swamp back in there? well, back behind where the tree
is down there there was a gray bag, and then a little bit further up, i saw something white. did you tell them that? >> yes, sir. >> and when you told them that, sir, was that the truth? >> yes, sir. >> so you had seen a fallen tree, a gray bag and something right close to that white? yes? >> i was never any closer than 30 feet, sir. i told them, described as best i could what i had seen that day. >> but you saw, you say which you told the operator, a gray bag by a fallen tree in those woods with something white by it that you thought was a skull. >> i said it appeared to be that, yes, sir.
[background sounds] >> on the following day, you called again, as we said, right? august the 12th? >> yes, sir. >> you did call on that day? >> yes, sir. >> that's the second day. >> yes, sir. >> you told them, i went down -- well, i had to take a, you know, and be i went down there, was behind one of the trees was a gray, vinyl-like bag like a pool cover or something like that,
and it looked rather suspicious. i didn't touch anything. do you remember saying that? >> yes, sir. >> and, sir, you were having more detail, you said there's a fallen tree that looks like someone had tried to cut on it at one point, but there was a white board hanging across the tree, and there -- >> your honor, objection on reading from a document not in evidence. >> i'm asking if he said it. >> sustained. >> did you, sir, tell the operator that there was a tree that looked like somebody had cut on it? >> yes, sir. >> are did you tell the operator there was a white board leaning against the tree? >> your honor, i'm going to object. he's doing the same thing. he's reading from a document that's not in evidence. >> overruled. >> answer the question, please,
>> on august 10th of 2008, sir -- strike it. did you draw a map for the law enforcement officers as to where you had been? >> on what day, sir? >> forget that date, any date. did you draw a map? >> yes, sir. >> and did you when you drew that map draw in the privacy fence that extended from the last house on suburban drive and
hope springs road? is. >> i don't remember, sir. >> may i approach the witness, your honor? >> you may. >> stamp piece 3992. do you recognize that document, mr. kronk? >> yes, sir. >> did you draw it? >> yes, sir. >> and is that a fair and accurate representation of what you remember at the time and that you drew three years ago? >> yes, sir.
>> i'd like to offer defense exhibit fi into evidence. >> if we could identify when that was drawn, i would have no objections. >> is it your signature on this document, sir? >> yes, sir. >> is there a date below it? >> yes, sir. >> what does it say? >> 12/17/08, sir. >> 12/17/08. offered into evidence. >> no objections. >> be received in evidence as defense exhibit numbered -- >> number 66.
>> [inaudible] >> you may. >> if i can. >> [inaudible] >> maybe it works better that way. [inaudible] mr. kronk, you see where you've labeled this fence here? >> yes, sir. >> is that a wooden privacy fence that comes from the last house? >> i believe so, sir. >> and then you drew right off the end of that an area. can you tell us what you're seeing there, please, sir?
>> well, the line represents the water. the line with the little thing sticking up represents the tree, and that was down, and then i believe where the x is about in the area where i saw where i was, sir, what i believed what i saw, sir. actually, no. because the bag is -- i just looked at it. no, the x next to the board is where i saw what i saw, sir. >> my fingers won't -- could you show me on there, sir, where the tree with the board is? can you touch it? >> oh. right there. >> and the bag, sir, relative to the tree? >> where that x is.
right there. >> and the white-brown object that you think was a skull, where was that? >> it would have been where the x was, sir. >> has the jury been able to see all that? [background sounds] >> do you know, sir, or can you remember approximately how far from the edge of the road that find that you made was? >> no, sir. >> can you see the edge of the road, sir, as you drew it?
>> would you, please, clarify what date are we talking about? are we talking about august, or are we talking about december? >> >> august the 11th -- >> excuse me. i never went into the woods on august 11th, sir. >> you didn't go in the woods to relieve yourself on august the 11th? >> we've already established that. but after that, no, sir, i never went back into the woods. [background sounds]
>> did you tell any of -- or either of the deputies that you had found a bag that you thought may have bones in it? >> no, sir. >> specifically, sir, did you tell deputy richard cain that you think the bag has bones in if it? >> i told him i saw an object, what appeared to me to look like a skull. >> but did you tell him, sir, that the bag looked like it had bones in it? >> no, sir. >> and the bag you found was on dry land, was it? not in water?
>> the area on august 11th that you went into the woods, was it dry or -- the ground, was it dry or underwater? >> it was dry. >> at the time that you were in those woods on that occasion, sir, were you aware of there being a reward offered for finding caylee? >> i believe so. >> pardon? is. >> i believe so. >> and do you believe that award to be -- reward to be $255,000? >> something like that, sir,
yes. >> and on that date of august the 11th, did you describe that you saw something and have described it as you have to this jury, were you aware that right around the corner on hope springs were a whole lot of media trucks? >> yes, sir. >> and people? >> yes, sir. >> did you go and tell anybody that you had found what looked like a skull and bag of bones? >> no, sir. >> anything like that to anybody? other than mr. dean? >> i never said i found a bag of bones, sir. i never said that. >> did you tell anybody that, sir, you found what looked like a skull? did you tell anybody other than mr. dean? >> i never said i found that, sir. i said i saw something that appeared to look like that.
>> and did you go tell anybody else that you found something that appeared to look like that? >> a roommate. >> your roommate. but none of all those media trucks that were there, none of all the people in the area? >> no, sir. >> and on that date, in fact, sir, did you describe to anyone that what you saw appeared to be white, looked like the top of a skull sticking out of a bag? >> yes, sir. >> and was, sir, the bag that you saw in august of 2008 the
same plastic bag that you saw in december, december the 11th, 2008? >> i wouldn't know, sir. >> do you believe it's the same bag? >> i wouldn't know. >> do you recall, sir, having your deposition taken on july the 30th of 2010 at the state attorney's office in the adjoining building right down here where ms. drain burdick was present, mr. jose baez was paren, ms. michelle medina was present and i was present, and your lawyer, david evans, was present. do you remember that? >> yes, sir.
>> counsel, court, i direct you to page 18, on line 19. the question to you, sir, that the time was "do you believe the bag you saw in august was the same plastic bag you saw in the december?" answer, yes, sir. do you remember my question and answer? is. >> yes, sir. >> were you attempting to tell the truth at that time?
>> time is now 12:00, we're going to be in recess until 1:30. i'm going to ask can that you not discuss this case among yourselves, nor with anyone else. and, please, remember all my previous admonitions. we'll be in recess until 1:30. any additional instructions on behalf of the state or the defense? >> no, sir. >> we'll be in recess. >> all rise for the jury. jenna: well, it's been an interesting morning so far, full of provocative testimony. we not only heard from the parents of casey anthony who you're seeing on your screen there as the judge adjourns or, well, recessed for lunch here in court, we just heard from roy kronk who, again, is the man who, apparently, found the remain of little caylee on december 11, 2008.
the line of questioning you were just listening to goes to when he was in that same part of woods and what he saw back in august when he was there for work. there's so many questions about him as a character, what he brings to the defense, where we are in this case in general. we have a few experts to talk about some of this. dr. baden is with us, a forensic pathologist, he's been with us watching all hour. thank you very much for staying with us. courtney pill. man as well, former president from california, also standing by with duane case who's been standing by in phoenix. so we're all over the country. we've certainly been watching this case. and starting with you, duane, just how important is this testimony from this man, roy kronk? >> well, i think it's really important. you know, the defense made some big promises in opening statement, and now it's time for them to fulfill those promises. but there's something wrong with roy kronk. i mean, he's trying to say that
he knows that there's a $250,000 reward for finding the, for finding caylee, and he sees it, and then he kind of just forgets about it. i mean, you know, it's hard to believe that somebody with $250,000 on the line, you know, doesn't march in there and open the bag up and look to see what's there. jenna: courtney, what do you do with this guy? the defense isn't done with him yet, but as far as cross-examination, where do you go with roy? >> you don't. he's a waste of time. listening to the testimony i was getting frustrated because i just want them to move on. the remains were found, regardless, they were found. whether or not he had the wherewithal or the motivation to investigate further, he didn't. he was, apparently, you know, bothered by or interested in this snake business, and it's much ado about nothing. the reality is the bones, the body, the remains were found in that area which is the same area
where the anthonys were living. jenna: dr. baden, when we get down to it, we still do not know the cause of death for little caylee. >> if the remains had been found in august rather than december there might have been enough tissues and trace evidence around the body to resolve how she died and resolve who done it. by waiting five more months, any trace evidence, forensic evidence, any tissues left the body, and if roy kronk in fact moved the body around in any way that further contaminated the scene. jenna: is he criminal then? if he's guilty of that, and we don't know. >> i'm not sure.
each state is different about whether or not a dead body -- a citizen has an obligation to report a dead body. certainly in this case he reported it, he called the sheriff's office, and apparently no response, no appropriate response was made. and remember, once the body is found, or the skeleton is found then it should be cordoned off and a medical examiner o or and anthropologist should come to the scene and look for skeletal remains or body parts. that also wasn't done right away. it appears in december it was moved by police officers. there are a lot of issues about missing evidence and missing body parts, ability to do a proper autopsy that is raised by the fact that august the remains were not discovered when this would have been easier to analyze.
>> as a defense attorney your job is to plant seeds of doubt in the jury's mind. when you have a witness like roy kronk on the stand who suddenly changes his story, the more that mason probes inch to it. i didn't see a bag, yes i did see a bag, i don't know what was inside the bag, absolutely changing the story, are you planting enough seeds of doubt in the jury's mind where they say, maybe this whole thing is unbelievable, we can't come to a decision that would lead us down the road to saying casey anthony is guilty here and deserves the death penalty? >> i think it's really important that they do know. you've got to keep in mind, in this case there are more questions than there are answers. in the opening statement the prosecution asked a lot of questions. they said, you know, where was caylee on this date. well casey was partying. where was caylee. one of the last questions was what happened to caylee anthony. we don't know. we don't know how the body got in the woods, when it god in the woods, who killed caylee. there is absolutely no evidence
that casey anthony did anything in this case. every time they can poke a hole it helps the defense. >> courtney you said a moment ago to jenna that you didn't think roy kronk was good as a witness at all. in creating object advice indication around what might have happened is he useful to the defense? >> i don't think so. i think if i were the defense i would focus more on the cause of death and why we don't have it. i would attack those aspects. i think dr. baden is absolutely correct. had mr. kronk been able to find the body sooner they may have ordehad some of the answers. this is a child who died, there are ao very few answers. i think it will be very difficult for the prosecution to secure a guilty murder on first-degree murder. i think what the jurors are going to be left with is basically this is a mother in charge of her daughter, her child died. and they have to speculate on how the child died. mr. kronk to me offers nothing.
jenna: what result do you see happening now? if it's not first-degree murder, what would the ruling be by the jury? >> if i'm a juror and i'm seeing and listening i'm going to say listen we have a mother here who was in charge of a child, the child died. we have evidence of chloroform, evidence of her out partying, i think it was an accident at death. i think she may have attached the chloroform in some capacity to this child. again that is speculation. at best i think they'll be able to come back to some sort of child abuse leading to the cause of death, which can be significant custody time but certainly not the death penalty. jenna: then we come to the evidence, don't we dr. baden, it comes to forensic evidence and whether or not we have it. if you were called in as an expert on this case for either side, what tests could we do that haven't been done that could give us answers. >> there was something that appeared yesterday when baez and ashton looked at the garbage that is in evidence and showed it to the tox colgis toxicologis
on the sand. they said poke between the insects and the poopacases. they have the dna of anybody who was in the car. it seems to me with all the studies down by the f.b.i. by testing the flies and the -- what the flies brought there, they can find the dna, they can find out if the flies fed on caylee anthony or not. and -- they could do that tomorrow. they could take the insects, the dead insects and test it for dna. we've done that a hundred years after somebody dies and can find the dna. jenna: let's see if they end up doing it dr. pwaepbd. we appreciate youdr. baden. we appreciate your expertise. thank you for standing by with us. we'll continue with this john,
throughout the next days and several days until the defense rests. >> layer upon layer of intrigue as this thing unwraps. jenna: than that you everybody. we'll have much more on the casey anthony trial right after the break. i guess we are changing the tone a little bit here with our next story. >> reporter: barbie with fangs? that is how one prominent columnist is describing michelle bachman. her response and if it says immediate by as against republican candidates. >> all we're going to do is focus on expanding our message, because people are ripe for positive change and true hope, and that is what we're going to be bringing to the american people. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor
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john: presidential candidate michelle bachman fending off attacks hours after kicking off her white house bid. president obama's owe bam's people saying her policies would erode prosperity. they called her, quote, barbie with fangs. she responded to that and other pot shots from media critics this morning and fox & friends. >> i think we are proving them all wrong, aren't we? right now we are number two in the country, so clearly our message is resonating with people from florida, to new hampshire, to south carolina, to iowa. john: here now pat cadell, a fox news contributor. is a by as out there, pat
against conservative women? the white house going after michelle bachman right out of the blocks. >> they didn't attack any of the male candidates that way the media, this thing -- she is only compared to sarah palin, not to the male candidates. there is this notion of -- it's an unspoken and a real by as that seems to exist against not just conservative women. look at hill hill haw she was treated. john: she went through a lot. >> she went through a lot with the media, the same thing, particularly conservative women, man they just unload on that, and it just drips with sarcasm, like why are you here doing this? it's kind of -- it's particularly true in the beltway, the political class media which looks at conservative woman like, my god you are just the most appalling thing we've ever seen. john: does it also drip with sexism as well over king's statement that she is barbie with fangs? >> oh, can you imagine somebody
saying that about a male, he's ken with fangs? john: no. >> this stuff is very sexist and shows you the mentality that exists, and it exists probably not just with male reporters, it exists with a lot of liberal women reporters act the same way. john: is politics still an old boy's club? >> until we get a woman president, i think the answer is yes. it's the last barrier we sort of face here. john: let's take a look at president obama, he is in iowa today. some say it's a jobs event, some say it's a campaign event. wrong track hit 63.3%. 29.3% in the right track, an average of 7 polls in "real clear politics" not a gallup poll. those are pretty bad numbers. it's a long way to 2012 but -- >> the problem is what is happening with president obama -- doug schoen wrote a piece suggesting -- we got all kinds of attacks from all al-qaida, conservative tiffs,
democrats, republicans, liberals. we said he should not run, he should work to save the country. that's what he should be doing. he made a compromise of trying to be a candidate. we see the president at fund raidsers. fundraisers. we see him intervene very late. he is being held up in personal popularity because the republicans can't get a narrative against him. these numbers are wearing on him and the pessimism, what i call the spector of decline is going to be able to be told on him politically. john: when you're right track, wrong track numbers are going in that direction it's not good. let's look at personal popularity. here is the gallop poll. 43% approving rating, 49% disapproval rating, they are going negative. >> let me tell you something, the minute he crosses, if he crosses 40 into the 30 territory
that's the territory that i lived with jimmy carter and george w. bush, that's -- there is a certain momentum that takes place and you see the white house response now, it's all negative, it's we're going to go after everyone, they went after bachman today, they go after everyone. the president has a problem it doesn't look like he's being president more than president in chief. john: people in a rassmussen poll, people were asked about the gap between the politicians and people who would like to govern themselves. 45% of the people said it's worse since at any time since before the revolutionary war. >> it's as bad as it was between the british and the american colonists. 55% said they believe among the political class zero said -- 95% said, oh, no there is no difference. that is a 150-point margin difference where the points come out. you've got to look at that and
say, that is the example of what is happen. i keep saying, if things continue as they are we are in a pre revolutionary political moment. john: and if politicians don't understand that gap where do they potentially stand next november? >> what happens is the vacuum opens up. i'm telling you, john, in december american politics will look a whole lot different than it does in july. the trends that we are seeing going on. phral particulars support is a vacuum. 1992 ross puro came this close to being a serious candidate for president in conditions a lot less worse than this. if these candidates don't begin to speak for the mainstream of the country someone else will step up. john: good to see you. jenna: we have potential trouble for another republican presidential candidate. herman cain campaign, two of his top staffers have resigned. one was his new hampshire state director, his only staffer in the key primary state. the other was the regional director for the campaign.
john: fast moving wildfire in new mexico burning its way closer to the nation's pre imminent nuclear lab in los alamos and driving thousands of people from their homes. adam housley is live from the bureau with more on the wildfires. under the years we've seen a lot of threats to the los alamos labs, how dangerous is it this time. >> reporter: it's all about the smoke. they have 60 different monitors
to monitor the spoke in the air. that is more of a potential threat to some of the facilities than the fire at this hour. it comes in as we get new numbers told to us, 93 square miles have burned now, 60,000 acres, john, burned from this fire. we've been told by lab officials they brought in a highly trained and especially equipped experts to provide the extra layer of security for the facility there. obviously very important to us. and they are watching these air monitors, very, very closely. they are having the fire briefings there on location, which is an important aspect. that tells you that if they are bringing state officials in there for fire briefings they consider the los alamos laboratory a safe place. only essential employees are being told to go to work. nonessential alare being told to evacuate or stay home depending where they live. john: there are will 10,000 people in that area. how are those evacuations going? >> reporter: yeah, right now we are being told around 12,000 all told when you count some of the
more rural areas that have been told to get out. they have evacuation centers set up in nearby towns. you can see smoke all the way in albuquerque 80 miles away. there was a fire there 11 years ago. people in the area know what it's like to face a serious fire threat. they have thinned some of the areas of the forest. it is burning in the can kwrapbs. as long as it stays up there firefighters are comfortable they'll be able to keep the fires away from los alamo s-rb. if the winds change all bets are off. we talked to the firefighters, here is what they have to say. >> if we get a wind shift we'll be fighting fire in the town sight. we have strike teams en route and will deplay them out this morning and get them into the neighborhoods to protect the neighborhoods. >> reporter: we've got numbers that have come in the last couple of weeks to give you an idea of the fire situation here in the southwest. california's fire season is just beginning, they don't believe it will be that bad as in recent years because we had a lot of
rain. arizona, new mexico over the last month, month and a half. this time last year there were 29,000 fires in the country. 1.1 million acres burned . this year, 2011, one year later, 35,000 fires, 4.6 million acres have burned, a significant increase over last year, john. john: with all the snow melt we're seeing too you can bette that a lot more foliage will grow so next year will be bad as well. >> reporter: absolutely. john: thanks for the update. jenna. jenna: dramatic testimony in the casey anthony murder trial this morning. court recessing for lunch just a few moments ago after meter reader roy kronk took the stand. he testified about the moment he says he spotted what was later to be discovered to be caylee's skull. the lead defense attorney has implied kronk moved caylee's body in the woods near the family home in order to get credit for the discovery.
kronk, who you are seeing on your screen never received a reward. here is a little bit of the testimony from moments ago. >> you call the operator, a gray bag by a fallen tree, in those woods with something white by it that you thought was a skull. >> i said it appears to be that, yes, sir. jenna: john lieberman is the host of the show true facts. former correspondent as well for america's most wanted. true facts is what we need in this case. >> i just hope this little girl gets some piece of justice. this is just socon fusing. jenna: how does roy kra*pbg figure in, as far as who this guy is, his background, things that the jury is not really hearing. who is this guy. >> you bring up a good point. there is a lot that the judge has ordered that the jury can't hear roy kronk. there are domestic charges against him. there is talk that he has used
duct tape to restrain children. jenna: is that implying that he could even be the murderer? >> i think the defense wanted to raise that doubt that he may be had more to do than his allegation that he moved the body and wanted to get the reward. that's where i think the defense was going with it. the judge said, no we are not going to go there. at the end of the day, and this works for the defense, there is such a credibility gap with nearly every single person that takes the stand, that the defense is clearly trying to raise both doubt by confusion, and doubt by dysfunction, basically saying, everybody here is dysfunctional, ow so, what ae you the jury going to do. jenna: least of which, casey anthony whose obvious dysfunction has been presented by the defense, because they presented her as a liar. there is still a question about whether or not she is going to take the stand. you say you've heard she wants to. >> i have heard rumblings that she wants to take the stand. i have also heard rumblings that
her defense absolutely doesn't want her to take the stand. it makes me think of the movie "a few good men" the you can't handle the truth moment. her attorneys think she will crack and spill everything. i have heard rumblings that she wants to testify. that led to the defense asking for a meant cal competency test of her . they can cover herself, we told our client it's not going to help your case to testify, now it's on the record and she is competent, so if she chooses, and in large part, jenna, it is her choice. this is her defense. jenna: they can't prevent her. they can't tell her, no way a hundred percent you're in the going if she says heck, yes i can. >> they can advice you in every way, shape and form and tell her it's not good but at the end of the day if she really wants to take the stand you'll see her on the sta stand. jenna: the prosecution has said they want to call a few other witnesses, and you say this is a very important key part of the case. who do they want to call and why
is it important? >> jenna's it's huge, the prosecution's pre-med dated first-degree murder case is based upon the fact that they say that casey anthony searched chloroform and the other terms on the computer, thus she was planning to kill her daughter and go forward with the crime. you remember, cindy anthony, her mother, the little girl's grandmother took the stand and said she was the one that searched chloroform. jenna: shocking testimony. >> which was shocking and the prosecution was not ready for that. she claims even though the books say she was at book that day, that she actually left work out clocking out, went home and searched chloroform. the prosecution has added to the witness list, two of her bosses, and it guy and one legal counsel to testify that, no, she was at work those days according to our records. we don't let employees leave work out clocking out. we don't pay employees to go home and google things. it's such a mess --
jenna: we've got even far away from little caylee. >> so far away. at the end of the way we have this little girl that needs justice. i hope that justice will be found here. i think the jury is socon fused and i think they are so wrapped up in all the dysfunction of the family that i don't think she will get first-degree pre-med datepremeditated murder. the prosecution has a way to go and they are still going down that road. but the allegations of abuse, we haven't heard about that. the defense theory that abuse causes -- that is a smack in the face to anybody who has been a victim of abuse. abuse doesn't give you carte blanche to lie and do what she is accused with doing with caylee. jenna: we'll see what happens next. it's been interesting, john. thank you for coming on set and talking to us about it. we'll continue to talk more about it in the next couple of hours here on fox news. john: lots to talk about jenna. street battles rage in europe,
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that is different. so freestyle lite test strips make testing... easy? easy. great. call or click-- we'll send you strips and a meter, free. free is good. freestyle lite test strips. call or click today. jenna: "happening now," 20,000 people in greece are rallying in front of parliament, protests turning violent ahead of a major vote on planned austerity measures. we've seen this before but again catching more scenes today. a plan full of tax hikes and spending cuts aimed at averting another financial meltdown. given the u.s. debt crisis when we see these skaepbs one o scene questions we ask ourselves, is this the future and how we are going to be like? is it a possibility, even, could what's happening in greece happen here. >> not any time in the near term. anything is possible, but anybody that is making the argument that we are going to
turn into greece any time in the near future is making a political argument, jenna not necessarily making an economic argument. are the issues similar? do we have a debt problem? have we bitten off more than we can chew? are we spending more than we bring in? >> yeah. we have done all of those things like greece did. there is one big economic difference. we can go out in the market tomorrow, next week, and we can borrow money to finance this lifestyle that we are living as crazy as it is. we can borrow money for ten years at 3% from the chinese or anyonanybody else, unless we che not to raise our debt ceiling. the ceiling is selfimposed. we are the ones putting a limit on how much we can borrow, 14-plus trillion dollars. if we want to we can go out and keep living this way until the market tells us we can't. the greeks don't have that option. the market won't let them borrow. they are forced to be bailed out. they will vote on another austerity package tomorrow that will keep this going for who
knows how long. jenna: who knows is exactly right, at least for greece. for us we have to make some sort of decision on that raising the debt ceiling by august 2nd. if we do not do that, if we do not raise the debt ceiling by august 2nd, the scenario you talked about, being able to go out and borrow money from the chinese, can we still do that? >> maybe not. it could be extended. the treasury has all kinds of gimmicks. we've already extended it a couple times. we could keep that going. here is the problem, i don't know the answer to that and nobody necessarily knows the answer to that. then you could start making comparisons back in 2008. remember heading into the so hrauld lehman bros. we be end in the fall of 2008, not that the situations are necessarily comparable. the idea that we did not know what was going to happen to lehman bros. over that weekend. we all assumed lehman bros. would get bailed out. they didn't. then, you know, the market was a mess that following week when it didn't happen. now we are all going into this august 2nd deadline making the assumption that the debt ceiling
is going to be raised. when i say we all, people that g bets in the office. if they are not, then we could have some issues. jenna: the fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator. you never know what is going to happen down in d.c. colonel mcshane with fox business thank you much. john: provocative testimony in the casey anthony trial. the defense tried to discredit the meter reader calling roy kronk a morally bankrupt individual. anita kay is a sex crimes prosecutor. maria hail is a defense attorney. maria let's start with you. many at home may be confused as to what the defense strategy was with roy kronk. lay it out for us. what is he trying to get to today. >> i can understand why the viewers would be confused at this point, because certainly jose baez in his opening
statement talked about the dysfunction and the sex-abuse and the fact that caylee actually drowned in the family swimming pool. at this point with roy kronk, he mentioned him in his opening statement as well saying that he was morally bankrupt, that he had a part in this and not to forget about them. we get to see just what roy kronk had to do with this. if anything. i think they are doing a really good job at poking holes in mr. kronk's testimony, or his prior testimony to show that he may have had something to do with it. but they just may be inferences and suggestions and it may not hold that much wait with the jury. john: anita kay as john lieberman was talking about a little while ago there is a lot with roy kronk that the jury is not allowed to hear. what is the defense trying to do here by inference and i phra indication? >> well, they are trying to dirty up roy kronk, that's for sure and create some sort of reasonable doubt that roy kronk moved the body, and this was the problem with the whole investigation, and it's somehow
going to lead to reasonable doubt against casey anthony. and it's really just smoke and mirrors. it's really a red herring. whether you like roy kronk or not, whether you think he's morally bankrupt or not, he had nothing to do with the death of caylee anthony. that is a completely separate issues. do we think that he moved the body? no, there is no evidence to suggest that he actually moved the body. and even if he did move the body, does that give reasonable doubt in a guilty conviction for casey anthony? that is the big question. john: but marie a if you can sew some seed of doubt in the jury's mind as to exactly what happened. we have roy kronk going into the woods to relieve himself while he's on a meter reading circuit on august the 11th. he sees what could be a skull and comes back on december the 11th and finds the body. there is a big space of time in there. even the smallest seeds of doubt in the jury's hind, do they not
convict on a capital murder case? >> john, you're absolutely right, that's all they have to show is get a little bit of reasonable doubt in one of the juror's minds. you can see what you want about the defense's advocacy and jose baez, but he has done a fantastic job putting inferences in the jurors' minds. he only has to have one person to either hang the jury or convince the others that it's not a first-degree murder. john: and anita, some of the other defense strategy here over the weekend they tried to claim that casey anthony was not competent to stand trial. the court found that she was. and then they also brought up this motion for a new jury and a mistrial based upon a federal ruling last week that florida's death penalty is unconstitutional. are they just trying to throw anything at the wall here to see if something sticks? >> well, the mental competency issue was a shock, and i think we arall shocked because there
were so many people speculating as to what it could be. it was something that was serious enough where the judge said we can't move forward. competency is usually something that happens well before trial. not something that happens during try. i've had plenty of cases where the competency of the defendant was put into question and i can tell you it was never during trial. the new motion to dismiss that is something that is valid . they have to explore all avenues, i believe judge perry said that he would take that under consideration later. the bigger question that i have when i listen to this trial and watch the trial is, jose baez made promises in that opening statement, and you better believe that jury will never forget promises that he made. he placed a burden on himself, and when are we going to see those promises that he made to that jury? the jury will not forget that when it's deliberation time. john: we'll see if he can deliver. as always, thanks for joining us, we really appreciate your analysis. jenna: short on cash. john: oh, always, are you kidding? >> isn't that the case? would you gamble on the successor failure of a
former speaker of the house nancy pelosi says we ned to pass the healthcare bill to find out what is in it. we have the latest poll on what americans now think about what is in it. and we'll reveal it to you coming up. president obama's spokesperson says it's nuts to think the public cares about the president being involved in the deficit talks. really? we'll report and you can decide. and in the dumbest thing you can do category for the day you can't miss a video of a guy who tries to ride an escalator on his rump instead of his feet. wait until you see the scary ending. that and much more when i see you just a few minutes away. jenna: we actually have that video for you right now. look at how we planned that. john: we're trying to get an edge in here. jenna: it is unbelievable video so you can see it more than once. this truly could have been a horrific deadly accident. you take a look at this teenager, he hops on to the rail, it's almost -- it is hard to watch, it's not almost hard to watch. patti ann you have more details on what exactly was going on
here. >> reporter: yeah, thankfully there is a happen aoepbding. the moral here, don't drink and ride escalator handrails, folks. this massachusetts teen as we just saw tried it. he is very lucky to be alive and it is all caught on video. 18-year-old shane o'malley can be seen here at a train station in a boston suburb sunday night. he climbs on the handrail as it rides up and loses his balance and falls 20 feet to the concrete below. he laid motionless for a very scary several minutes. luckily it turned out he had a fracture elbow and a very sore back. o'malley admits he was drinking before and during a concert that day. his words, i obviously got too drunk and was irresponsible. he doesn't remember the fall but his father continues to tell him how lucky he is. jenna: it's unbelievable he's still walking right now. >> reporter: he was still for a few minutes.
i guess he was just stunned at that point. jenna: good advice, patti ann, don't drink and ride anything. john: he had the good fortune of landing perfectly from that height. jenna: and that truly was an accident as far as landing that way. john: you've heard of the biological clock, right? ticking away -- jenna: is there anybody who hasn't, honestly. john: turns out that biological clocks don't just particular for the ladies. what some experts say could happen if men wait to long to have kids. we've got that coming right up.
example. they'd get paid if the programs proved successful. if the plan fails, then the government would owe little to nothing to any of those investors. here now jay gonzalez, massachusetts secretary of administration and finance and charles payne ceo of fox news strategies and a fox news contributor as well. secretary gonzalez, how exactly does this work? >> well from state government's perspective what we're trying to do is find more cost effective ways to do things and get better results. what we're looking to do through this innovative financing mechanism is contract with providers who provide social services on behalf of the state, and do it in a way where we're telling them that we're going to pay them if they actually get better results for us. and at the end of the day what we're looking for is to get better results whether it's reducing homelessness, or reducing recidivism among juvenile offenders and better results for taxpayers saving
money. these what this is all about. jenna: why would these contractors. this is a question for anyone when it comes to investing. why should she trust the government to manage their money correct lee? >> we wouldn't be manage inch their money. what we would be doing is entering into a contract with a provider who would help deal with our homeless population, to try to eliminate our homeless population, for example, and we would be telling them, if they actually get the results we are looking for that we would make payments to them. jenna: interestingly, let me get charles in here too. you bring up the pointe secretary gonzalez there are metric to figure out if some of the programs are successful. this type of structure for the contractors and state is at least something we should considerment you're a small business owner, what do you think about it? >> i think you brought up a very valid point with respect to the government and moving goal posts and moving things and metrics that someone would use. it's a real tough thing to say,
okay we are already dealing with someone, let's say someone who goes to jail, and now you're job is to make sure that they don't go back to jail, and if they do then you don't get paid. i think it takes away from the sort of the moral obligations that society and particularly the home has, the community has any way and puts more of it on someone rolling the dice. what i really find interesting about this. jenna, is a lot of people watching this show would like to invest in different things with their own social security money and things like that, but the government frowns upon that, however they think something like this is a smart idea. it seems very gimmicky to me. jenna: respond to charles, some of the concerns he brings up. >> we are not telling investors whether it's a smart idea or not. they will make that decision on their own. this is a new market, they are looking for opportunities to invest in nonprofits who are doing new and innovative things to provide better services. from the government's perspective, all we are saying is we have a new fiscal reality,
we need to do things smarter, get better results and save taxpayers money. we don't have the same fist alresources we used to have. what we are saying is we will pay a nonprofit provider if they provide a service for us and get better results. jenna: you point out it's a free market and if something is introduced to the free market then the market will decide if it's successful eventually. and secretary gonzalez it's something we will be following, it's a very interesting idea. thank you so much for joining us. charles as well. we'll continue to follow it. john over to you. john: all right, jenna. listen up to this one. the biological clock not just a burden for women any more, why men should pay attention to that nagging tick, tick, tick. we'll have that story coming right up. that's two pills before the first bell. [ bell rings ] it's time for recess... and more pills. afternoon art starts and so does her knee pain, that's two more pills. almost ne, but hang on...
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you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. >> that was the scene from "my cousin vinny." we hear about women's biological clocks, we don't hear about men's. john: men have biological clocks as well. we know women's eggs can deteriorate as they age.
men's sperm can deteriorate, too. >> it's like the comparison between a copy machine for men. men produce sperm after every ejaculation. but as the copy machine ages it can turn out not so pristine copies. women are born with their eggs at birth. they start fading off when they reach puberty. eventually the older ones get yellowed and faded. >> all women i'm sure can relate to this. we hear about the biological clocts before it's even relevant. even at a young age. men i'm just guessing don't hear that photocopy example very often when they go to the
doctor. is that something doctors should let the guys know about? >> a few years ago a study came out and gave us new information on the fact that men need to be careful. doctors should be speaking to their male patients letting them know it's important to have children earlier. the genetic my takes can occur -- the genetic mutations can occur. john: it can lead to schizophrenia, autism and other disorders. >> you can freeze . but still when you are in an advanced stage it's harder to raise children with advanced age. >> just a fair point to underscore it's not just the women's fault. that's why we appreciate you coming in t